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Exclusive: Jon Keith Talks 'Grow Wings' & Life Lessons | SWAY’S UNIVERSE
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Jul 9, 2025
Experience an exclusive interview with Jon Keith on "Sway In The Morning" as he dives into his latest project, 'Grow Wings,' and the life lessons that have shaped his journey. Jon Keith shares powerful insights into his creative process, the inspiration behind his music, and how faith plays a pivotal role in his artistry. From discussing the vulnerability in his lyrics to navigating the challenges of the music industry, this conversation is packed with heartfelt moments and thought-provoking discussions. Discover how Jon blends genres, redefines gospel music, and connects with listeners through his raw and emotional storytelling. With topics ranging from his collaboration with Rodney Jerkins to his thoughts on Christian art's boundaries, this interview is a must-watch for music lovers and aspiring artists alike. Don’t miss this inspiring conversation on Sway’s Universe, your go-to destination for exclusive interviews that spotlight creativity, faith, and culture. Watch now and be part of the movement! #SwayInTheMorning #JonKeith #GrowWings #GospelMusic #HipHop #RodneyJerkins #FaithBasedMusic #SwaysUniverse #jonkeith #faithsoldier #jonkeithrapper #rap #music CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Jon Keith on His Creative Renaissance 02:43 - Jon Keith on His Relationship with Rodney Jerkins 07:04 - Jon Keith Discusses His New Album "Jesus at My Door Tonight" 09:54 - Jon Keith on Aggressive Vulnerability in Music 14:12 - Does The Gospel Music Industry Need Change? 20:35 - Collaborating with Glorilla Insights 25:08 - "Eyes On Us" 27:02 - Exploring Vulnerability & Love 28:00 - Emotional Safety & Trust in Relationships 31:28 - Meaning Behind "Grow Wings"
View Video Transcript
0:00
Boys came up here with something to say. He have the be I know. I was there. That's crazy. Miles Minnie came up here. He had
0:06
something to say. I was there. John Keith came up here. He had something to say.
0:11
I was there, y'all. I wasn't even sure if John was in a good mood that day. But he was there.
0:17
But he showed up. Sometimes you got to show up regardless of the move.
0:22
100%. You got to show up. And I gave these guys a open invitation because I love what they stand for. We
0:28
were talking about the West Indies project at that time, but you know, there's been other music dropped and I've been able to just follow these guys
0:35
on the social media and see the work and the reception that they're receiving, not only from the uh from the industry,
0:41
but al also from the audience, you know, and it just seems like their stars are constantly rising. And then John Keith,
0:48
man, he's he just never stops working. Heather, the dude is just working, man. like he
0:54
grew he grew up with no food on the on the shelves or the refrigerator was
0:59
empty. So he's here to talk about new music, a new project coming, all the great things he' been doing. I said,
1:04
"Man, come up to the show." And here he is, the one and only John Keith.
1:11
What's so crazy about what you said though, Sway, before we went live on air, I hope you don't mind me sharing.
1:17
It was so beautiful that he said, "This never gets old." And you know, I was sharing with him, you know, some of the
1:23
conversation you and I had about Mr. Robert Townsen and and and the words that he dropped and the words that he
1:29
shared at a talkback at a a screening of a film called The 40-year-old Version. And um I I love that you said that. Keep
1:37
that fire, you know, may the spirit continue to guide you and keep you excited and enthused because that's such
1:42
a great attitude to have because it's so easy to get discouraged. this industry
1:47
is a lot, you know, and so to stay excited is a good thing and and like Sway said, even
1:53
when you don't feel like it, sometimes we have to show up. 100%. Yeah. And showing up excited is gives
1:59
you the advantage. 100%. No, I appreciate it. Yeah. I was, you know, this is this is something
2:05
that, you know, I used to, like I've I mean, I've said it a million times now, but, you know, like growing up wishing
2:12
that you could maybe do music one day and watching all the artists that you like look up to and you want to be come
2:20
up here and talk to Sway and talk to Heather, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like, and then you're sitting in the seat. It's like, yo, it's just a
2:27
constant reminder of uh of of God's faithfulness, you know? Yeah, man. I like that.
2:32
Amen. I like that, man. This guy is all right with me. I'm just cuz he mentioned your name.
2:38
He did say, I like when John says my name.
2:43
Okay. Okay. Okay. I believe him, man. And um the music you making has just been really outstanding.
2:49
Yeah. I feel I feel like um there's this creative renaissance that's happening um
2:56
for you, for Miles, and even for the the genre, if you will. You're starting to hear people u step out of the perimeters
3:04
of what was considered the genre and like listening to the music I just played,
3:09
Won't Fly, Jesus at my door. Right. Yeah. And that doesn't I mean I I you
3:16
could play it at the R&B club, you could play it on the in the mix show, you know, you could you could play it in a
3:21
lot of different places. I can't really put it in a genre. Mhm.
3:26
But you when I listen to these vocals, I didn't realize that you were in the hook.
3:32
Yeah. You in a different realm today. Yeah. Speak on that. Yeah. So, so what's funny is I've been
3:41
uh I've been singing longer than I've been rapping, right? But I have not been singing like
3:48
professionally longer than I've been rapping. So, like, you know, I got into rap when I was um when I was 12 and then
3:55
I started writing when I was 14, you know, started rapping when I was 16. But I was singing all, you know, I grew up
4:02
my my parents was playing Stevie Wonder and and you know, gospel music and actually country music too. So like they
4:09
was it was a a bunch of different stuff. Michael Jackson, CC Winance, you know, it it was that was in our house at all
4:16
times. And so I I was singing those songs all the time. Um and then, you
4:21
know, I started rapping. But, you know, especially uh after linking up with Rodney and and talking, you know, and
4:28
we've been working. That's Rodney Jerkham.
4:33
The first name basis. They make money together. Yeah. You know, like melody is king, you
4:40
know what I'm saying? And it's like I love I love rap, you know what I'm saying? And I also love I really love
4:47
writing songs that that resonate with people and can pull emotion out of them.
4:53
You know what I'm saying? Um and so like that's what that's what I wanted to do with this album. I keep telling everyone I wrote this album to help people fall
4:59
apart, you know? And so that's what that's what we're trying to do.
5:04
That's I wrote this album to help people fall apart. There's a when you sing in
5:11
this chorus and I want to come back to Rodney Jerkens, too. When you say melody is king, it sound like somebody gave you
5:17
a gym and and you follow that. Oh yeah. Did he did Did he tell Michael that too when he worked with Michael Jackson?
5:22
Michael Michael might have told him that. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And you don't tell Michael
5:27
anything. You I don't know. Okay. Did he ever tell you any Mike stories? Oh yeah.
5:33
Any you can share like uh one that would blow our mind? Uh I don't you know he he really just
5:38
talks about you know he talks about like his friendship with Michael and like how he was in the studio. He said you'll be in there like working, you know what I'm
5:46
saying, going crazy and then like he said Michael was like a kid in the studio. He like pop up and throw an egg
5:51
at you and it's like wait hold on what? You know what I'm saying? And then you then you joke around in the studio all
5:56
that like crazy. Wow. Yeah. But he's he'll also talk about uh you know his like his genius. He's like,
6:03
"Bro, I don't I don't know if like he was doing this at like or if he was really this genius. I don't know. So,
6:09
he's like, he'll call me at like 4:00 a.m. and be like, "Yo, uh, play me what
6:14
you worked on today." And he's like, "Over the phone?" He's like, "Yeah." And he plays it and he's like, "Yo, pan the high pan the high hats to the left or
6:20
like all that kind." And it's like over the phone you can hear the you can hear how it's panned on the phone.
6:26
That's crazy. And so, you know, it it's it's always inspiring listening to him uh, you know, talk about talk about
6:33
Michael, especially because, you know, with this album, uh, me and my brother Enzo worked on and we, uh, like we took
6:40
some inspiration from Michael. And so, like, you know, when Rodney comes in and he listens to it, he's like,
6:45
"Yo, this got kind of like a Michael feel to it." I'm like, "We win." And then he'll go and be like, "Yo, let me
6:51
show you some." And then, you know, pull out like files he got of like it's crazy. unheard stuff. I mean,
6:58
I don't know. But stems from maybe, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pulling out stems and playing them back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
7:04
Crazy. John Keith is here, man. Um Yeah. You You want You made this album to to
7:11
tear people apart. To have people fall apart. To have people fall apart. Okay. I was like, "Okay."
7:17
To rip people to shreds. Yeah. You won't be on tour. Yeah, man. I was like, "What's wrong
7:22
with you, bro?" Okay. Oh, what is it? What's the proper verbage to uh to help people fall apart?
7:29
So, in this hook, you go, "I got dreams, but I got no time."
7:34
Yeah. I hear Jesus at my door tonight. Yeah. Can't let him see me. I'll just go and
7:40
hide. Yeah. I'm too scared of what we going to find. Yeah.
7:46
What the What I mean, what what talk about what what made you write that
7:51
line? But it it sounds like it's is inspired by a place you once were maybe.
7:58
Yeah. Um Jesus uh first of all I want I want to
8:04
say Jesus is a a person who is alive. I believe that right Jesus has uh he
8:13
like he he desires relationship with people and he and he desires to um help
8:19
people grow. in order to grow, there's things that they have to come off of us,
8:26
you know. Um, and we do this, we play this game with God
8:32
sometimes, and we often don't even realize we're doing it. So, I I said, you know, I can't let him see me. I'll
8:39
just go and hide because I'm too scared of what we might find. Like, I've I've stuff that I've buried so deep, I don't
8:45
even know what's down there anymore. Mhm. And so it's like I don't even know exactly what I'm hiding from Jesus. But I just I can't let him see me because if
8:53
he does then he he's not going to want anything to do with me, you know, because that's the kind of
8:58
relationships. That's the kind of love that we as humans experience often times is if people knew your absolute
9:05
uh worst. Yeah. Would they still love you? You know, and so when we say, "Yeah,
9:11
Jesus would." It it that sounds ridiculous. It's very hard to be like, "Okay, yeah, I can trust that." Because
9:17
we've never we've never experienced that. And so, um, that's kind of what the song is about is like trying to make yourself
9:25
into somebody first before before you can come to to God. Um, and and he's
9:30
he's like, "Yo, I'm not I'm not asking you to do that. I'm asking you to come as you are so we can take you uh so we can take you
9:38
further you know not leave you where you are. Mhm. Cuz that's a you know that's a thing
9:44
that often gets like twisted. Oh you know to come as you are. Yes. Yes. And
9:49
and if he left you as you are that wouldn't be love. You know John Keith is here. That's very
9:54
vulnerable. That's a lot of uh vulnerability um in these in your
10:00
music that I'm fascinated by because uh personally I have a hard time writing
10:06
emotions into words on paper, right? I could probably speak it better,
10:12
right? But I've never I tried to keep diaries and things in my day, but I couldn't do it because I knew I was being fake in the paper.
10:18
Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't being as real as what I was feeling. Maybe I just had a lack of
10:23
vocabulary. When LL Cooj made I need love, right, that was showing um our
10:29
culture a whole another side of vulnerability coming from a man or or Pac made so many tears.
10:35
Yeah. Or even Jay-Z made um song cry. Song cry, right?
10:41
That kind of vulnerability is different, but that level of vulnerability is hard to reach. And that's what I'm hearing in
10:47
your music. Yeah. Right. Is there do you have to have go through a process before being able to
10:53
even bring this out of yourself? Like Yeah. I mean, it's for me it's difficult
11:00
to to not be I I've I've not really had a problem uh sharing.
11:07
I' I've often had a problem oversharing. Okay. Um and well, actually, that's that's not
11:12
completely true, you know. Yes, it's tough. It's tough to share, but to me, I
11:20
just I don't think that we can properly uh love each other and
11:26
help each other um with secrets and and lies, you know, and so like a a big
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thing in my music is uh I like to say aggressive vulnerability. like being
11:37
aggressive about it so that it's you know if I if I can if I can give you if I can
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give you as close as I can get to my worst because I don't I don't really I don't think I really know the depths
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of of of my worst. I don't think I don't think a lot of us do. Um but if I can get as close to that uh
11:57
in in vulnerability as I can then people feel oh you know what maybe I'm not too
12:04
far gone. Um, and so, but yeah, I mean, it it is a it's a process for sure. You
12:10
know, it's it's difficult, but I I've come to a place where I think it's it's harder for me to
12:16
uh not overshare. Not overshare. You've been described as a champion for the lonely and searching.
12:22
Right. [Music] Um,
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who who who described you as me? Me. Okay.
12:35
based on your music. I just, you know, in my own mind, you know, it's you you're at service,
12:41
right? Um through your music. Um but you don't have to be. You can easily try to write. We all written songs here like in
12:48
this room, right? And you know, we you you Jin Boogie, the one who works with you, you
12:53
know, there's there's times when you write songs for certain reasons. Yeah. You know, oh, this is going to be my
12:59
radio song. Yeah. Right. This going to be my song for the club, right? this this this is going to
13:04
be my song for the streets. Um but you your songs seem to be always
13:11
for those who are lonely and searching you know. Um did you make a conscious
13:17
decision that with my music this will be my purpose in in a way I just I wanted to find
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people like me? Yeah. you know, uh I I think that a lot of us are are a lot
13:30
closer than than we than we think we are, you know. Uh and so the lonely and searching kind of
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it kind of describes everybody. You know what I'm saying? like you know there's
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times where it's like man uh like it might not be u you know a
13:49
generalization of just like this is you all you're always lonely and searching but you know you just might have hit a season where you're like I don't think I
13:55
have anybody right now a season and like I don't think I I don't think I I know
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uh who I am or what this is about anymore and so that that's that's the
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lonely and searching you know and so I I want to make music for people that are in that that time.
14:13
What you looking at him like that for, Heather B? I see you got you staring at John Keith right now. You know, we were listening to your
14:19
music before you came in and I'm trying to figure out if
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this industry needs to change what they call gospel music.
14:30
Okay. And the categories that they put people in. Yeah. Because you talked about Lonely to you talk about searching
14:36
and I could name 50 R&B songs that fall into that category and yet you
14:43
hear these records constantly on the radio. Mhm. But the moment you put gospel artists
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next to that person's name, they may not get on a adult R&B contemporary whatever
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they call these different channels out there. But you are you're you're talking
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R&B music can be inspirational as well, you know. And I'm just wondering should
15:07
some of these titles change because you're talking about things that hip-hop artists talk about. Yeah.
15:13
Uh R&B artists talk about, country artists talk about, pop artists talk
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about. So why is it so difficult sometimes for artists that fall under
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this, you know, how you would described as this art to get the love and get the light and get the promotion and get, you
15:31
know, it's just it's just strange to me the box that some artists get put in,
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but you're making the subject matter is the same. Yeah. I you know, I have a man I think
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about that a lot because Okay. The entire thought of they going to get mad at me, but the entire thought of like
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Christian art, yeah, is brand new. Like that's like that's
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within the the the last 10, 15, I mean a little more than that, but I mean like within the grand scheme of how
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long art's been around and how long Christians have been making art. You look at like the Systeine Chapel.
16:09
Oh, okay. That got it. Look at like these artists. You look uh Beethoven or you know what I'm saying?
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Like there's artists who who had a faith and like believed in God and
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like you know I'm saying uh would would categorize them their lives as Christian and then they would
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make art and it was art. All right. You know what I'm saying? And and sometimes it reflected God.
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The Sistine Chapel, you look up and you see that. I mean like I've never been. I would love to to go see that in person,
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but it's like this giant uh mural of like, you know,
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God and man and heaven and all all of these things. You're not going to look at that and be like, "Oh, this is a
16:49
secular piece of art." Like, that's not that's not going to happen. But for some reason, it has to happen with with music. I think that's stupid. But,
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um, I also I proudly say that I'm I'm a Christian artist because I'm a I'm a Christian
17:03
everything, right? like if if I'm if I'm if I'm not a Christian, something that's a problem
17:09
for me because I claim to to know Jesus, right? But this thing where, you know,
17:15
people are wanting to uh there's a thing going on right now in the Christian music world.
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I love when y'all give us the insight. So, so you know, Glorilla just just won
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with Franklin won song of the year, BET Awards. Congratulations to her.
17:31
Rain down on me. Yeah, rain down on me. And and I I understand both sides. So like, you know, I was talking with
17:37
Rodney. Uh we were just up at at uh Breakfast Club with, you know, Charlemagne and he was like, uh he was
17:43
like, I I don't like this because there's people that live this 100% of
17:50
the time. There's people that their their entire life is about gospel music,
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gospel, everything, right? and then somebody dives off and does a moment of gospel something and it's like ah let's
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let's give her everything. I understand the frustration there. That's the thing for sure. And then there's another side
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of it um where I'm like uh there there might have been a moment
18:17
in her life. I don't I don't I ain't never met Glow in my life, right? You know what I'm saying? But it's like she
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had a moment where she wanted to write something that
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uh reflected where she might be with with God. Yeah. Right.
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And it's like there's there's a lot of Christians right now that's like, oh, you know, they're winning our awards and
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like they're and it's like I feel like we focus on the wrong
18:46
things. Like our award, we own those. That's kind of crazy, you know what I'm
18:52
saying? Like, and so I don't know. And and again, I I don't know. Glow. I don't She might have She might have been like, "Time to make
18:58
a Christian moment." You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. Or it could have been genuine. I I just feel like
19:03
this thing of like Christian art and not Christian art. And you know, I'm not going to be the one to solve it. This has been going on forever. But it's just
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it's very confusing. Yeah. It's confusing. It's that's new. Yeah. because a R&B artist can be a
19:16
Christian as well making R&B music, but they're not considered a Christian artist. Like,
19:21
right now, now I will say I I do understand the, you know, um I had a a talk with a friend a little while ago
19:27
who was like, "Yo, do you think I make uh Christian music?" Um, and I know he's a Christian. Um, and
19:34
his art uh it kind of reflects other things, right? I I would say a lot of
19:40
times, and this isn't the case for him specifically, but it just made me think about this. A lot of times I understand
19:47
the oh well, you know, this can't be, you know, a Christian artist because I don't think you can make art that
19:55
contradicts facts, right? You can't make music that goes, I'm gonna call uh what God calls evil,
20:02
I'm gonna call that good, and and and I'm a Christian artist. I don't think you can do that. You can't do that,
20:07
right? But there's things that's like people experience love. They want to
20:13
write a song about their wife. Like the fact that they're even able to experience that love is a reflection of
20:19
God. Amen. You want to write a song about your kids. The fact that you can love your kids and
20:25
have that relationship is a reflection of God. You know, like these things are are are uh
20:31
they're universal. They're common grace. You know what I'm saying? And so, um, yeah, to to try and, you know, I'm kind
20:37
of ranting, but, you know, No, no, you know, I like it. So, um, you don't have a problem with Gorilla winning that award.
20:43
No, no, me personally, I don't. Yeah. Would you work with her? What I uh It depends on what what do
20:49
depends on what we do. Yeah. But you wouldn't you would be open to that. Yeah. You know, it would it would have
20:54
to we'd have to have conversations. Yeah. I mean, like if it's compatible and the subject matter is aligned with
20:59
what you do. Yeah. Yeah. Just like, hey, I want to write a song. This is what I'm going through. uh with God right now and or just in life
21:06
right now. And I feel like you can speak into that. Like I'm like, "Oh yeah, dope. Let's have a conversation." And like
21:12
I would, you know, I would I would love to if it's like, "Yo,
21:17
we can make one that go crazy in the church." I'm like, "Okay, that's you know, feels a little vultury. I don't
21:23
know." You know what I'm saying? But yeah. Yeah. John Keith is here. Heather, I'm going to play um to your point, Ma. Can
21:31
you throw in the song um Eyes on Us real quick? A piece of it. I want to play that because when I first heard this
21:37
song Mhm. I was thinking the same thing you're saying. Like this sound like this could be
21:43
It's confusing. Yeah. It's like a R&B like this could be on the R&B charts right here. What's the problem?
21:48
Yeah. Yeah. Right. What's the problem? Uh we gonna see if we could We got that minute eyes on us. And um I'm gonna say
21:57
salute to Kirk Franklin. Yep. Um, I know he gets a lot
22:02
Kirk always getting backlash or something or another, but that man had we've had conversations
22:08
where he we sat down behind his concerts like at the like, "Yo, Sway, come talk
22:13
to me." Yeah. I I love my audience and we sing together because we're evilly yolked. We
22:20
we we're in the same choir. Yeah. I want to reach people who aren't in our choir, so to speak.
22:25
Yeah. You know what I mean? I want to I want to reach people who who really need to be reached.
22:31
Yeah. You know, and want to be reached. And I think him doing songs with artists like
22:36
Glorilla and other artists is his way of getting into cross-pollinating into other audiences.
22:42
So they could have a variety of messaging, not just one or two things, you know, and look what they were able to do.
22:49
Yeah. You know, I grew up in the church the same way. I didn't I wasn't taught to idolize trophies
22:55
or awards like that, you know. I'm not knocking whoever. Boo. That's just a interesting,
23:02
you know, rebuttal. It's funny that you bring up Kirk with that because because he did Stomp um
23:09
with Salt from Salt and Pepper on there and I'm a hip-hop artist. I'm I'm grew up loving hip-hop. Yeah.
23:14
When I saw I'm like, who's this Kurt Franklin? Yeah. Who Who is Who did Salt do a song with?
23:20
It made me go back Yeah. and listen to all of Kurt Franklin's music. That's how I discovered Kirk
23:26
Franklin, you know, so it got me into his world, you know. Um, and I know Salt
23:33
as as a Christian woman who happened to do hip-hop, you it made sense for her. I also think we need to start giving
23:40
artists more grace. If I come into the industry, John, at at 19, 20 years old,
23:46
Yeah. And maybe by the time I'm 28, I have different experiences. What I was doing at 20, I'm not doing anymore.
23:53
Maybe God put on my spirit. Don't drink. Don't smoke. You hanging out with the wrong crowd. Give me some grace to grow
23:59
with that. Maybe for other people, it happens a shorter time. But, oh, you flip now. You different now. You're a
24:05
positive rapper. Go ahead with that. You know, all of the things. And it's like we we got to do better as as an
24:11
audience, too. Allow artists to grow. you know, like you said, she could have had something hit her and
24:17
Yeah. And you know, that that could have been the case. And I I will say like there is a thing with like the industry.
24:24
So like Rodney is right that there's a thing with the industry that's like Rodney Jerking. My bad. My bad.
24:29
Yeah, that's his buddy. Yeah, that's that's my fault. Uh Rodney is right in the fact that the
24:35
industry will do this thing where it's like, oh, you know, this person is doing
24:41
did a Christian song. I was like, "Okay, well, let's pay attention to this now cuz it's okay when they do it." But these artists that are
24:47
all, you know what I'm saying? Always Christian artists and they're making excellent music. We're not going to pay attention to them because it's
24:53
Christian, but this is dope over here. He is right. Like that's backwards. You know what I'm saying? But I I I was just
24:58
I wanted to speak to like the the uh the tension of like, "Oh, is this art Christian or is this not Christian?" You
25:05
know? So, yeah. Well, congratulations to them and I appreciate being open about this. I
25:10
want to play this song called Eyes on Us. John Keith, manip
25:18
I was going to talk walk over that baby. I was Alex Jean. I was Alex Jean on the
25:24
on the guitar. He he he did the he did the the verse the little rap verse, not Lil. I mean he did it was Lil in time.
25:31
Yeah. It was a fire verse. Um and he Yeah, he shredded that guitar, too. I see Tracy rocking rock boxing in New
25:39
York right now, too. that one right Tracy feel. Absolutely. I mean from your art to the
25:45
conversation John you're such a gift and I got to say I mean from what you've
25:50
been sharing what constitutes Christian art what doesn't but then also with do
25:56
categories sometimes simplify to help a bigger audience understand but then they
26:02
can be very limiting for an audience. But I also got to note that when it comes to faith-based music, I personally
26:09
have not heard it sound at this level until I was introduced to a LRA, until I
26:16
was introduced to your work, until I was introduced to Miles. And I feel like it reminds us that there is always
26:22
something to learn about another person. Even if on the surface it looks like we have all of these differences, but there
26:30
is something that we share. And just in terms of sound, it's like we know what our heart feels drawn towards and you
26:37
can take those like soundsscapes but then add a different context through like the subject matter. And I think
26:44
that is going to I don't know. I think we're going to start seeing an artist like you win awards that are outside the
26:51
Christian category. Like I want to call that right now. I want to claim that right now. You you're going to claim that Tracy?
26:56
I want to claim that. Yeah. Because up there
27:02
That is my testimony, bro. But I also want to speak to you, John, um, about
27:08
vulnerability more because what's wild is that vulnerability is a requirement
27:15
for love to enter, but it's not a guarantee that love will enter when
27:22
you're being vulnerable, right? And sometimes vulnerability leads to rejection.
27:28
Sometimes you're being vulnerable about your emotions, maybe sharing with someone how something they
27:34
unintentionally did hurt you, but they don't want to receive it. It's overwhelming, etc., etc. Can you share
27:42
how someone can kind of make peace, get back to their center after a
27:48
vulnerability hangover of sorts where it did not lead to love? And then I would
27:55
love for you to talk about um what trust and emotional safety looks like in
28:01
friendships because it's already difficult just as an adult with the
28:07
discernment but then there's an added layer when you are in this industry you know and there are kind of you know
28:13
judices so to say who are lurking and want to be around you for this moment
28:19
but don't have your best interest. So, if you could speak on the both of those, I would love to hear your POV.
28:24
Yeah, I appreciate it, Tracy. Um, I I think uh so for one, I have no idea how
28:32
to, you know what I'm saying? Come back to like uh your your center after like
28:38
being rejected, you know, from being vulnerable. I have no idea how to do that outside of God. You know what I'm
28:44
saying? like I the only way for me cuz it's happened
28:50
before. I've been vulnerable before and I've been rejected. The only way I was able to reenter myself and and you know
28:58
be all right is the fact that I know at the end of the day there's someone who will never reject me,
29:04
you know, uh who, like I said, I don't even know my worst. He does. You know
29:12
what I'm saying? like he know he knows and he's trying to get to it and he wants to he wants to you know work in it
29:17
because of love. And there's a there's a thing too um there's a uh
29:23
you know there's this idea that is very popular in our culture uh that you know
29:32
like people have that saying it's like oh you know I messed up I'm this I'm that well I'm only human and it's like
29:37
uh and we we tend to think that like human and uh sin or wickedness or just
29:44
you know wrong is like synonymous and it's not the the thing. The reason
29:49
that that God like, you know what I'm saying? I'm sorry. I'm I'm I'm preaching today. Uh the the reason that God
29:57
uh hates sin and hates wickedness is because of what it does to humans.
30:04
And so like it it's not like, oh well, you know what I'm saying? Like that's why he's not
30:11
going to leave you where you're at because all the wrong that's happening. He's
30:17
like, "This is damaging the one that I love. I'm going to deal with the wrong
30:22
to save to save the one I love." You know what I'm saying? And so, um, I don't know how I don't know how to to
30:28
come back to it unless unless it's with God. Um, and then I will say like, you know, as
30:35
far as like, um, relationships go and trust and all that.
30:40
Um, you know, like you said, I mean, it's tricky, especially being in this in this uh, industry. you know, it kind of
30:47
always feels like somebody might want something from you. Um, but you know,
30:53
when I look at my model of how to be human, which is Jesus, I'm like, okay,
31:00
he knew, he was aware that people just wanted something from him and he was like, and we going to rock anyways.
31:05
Yeah. You know, um, and so, you know what I'm saying? Obviously, like I'm a, you know, I got a wife and a
31:11
son, so I have a responsibility to protect them. Mhm. Um, and so like I'm I'm doing that,
31:17
but as far as like serving those even those who might not want the best for me. Yeah. That's that's my that's I'm obligated
31:24
to. You're obligated to do that. You know, John Keith, give this man a round of applause. A new project is called Grow
31:30
Wings. Yeah. And the meaning behind that is uh you know, it's a uh even when I came
31:37
here last time or the first time I had that big butterfly chain on. Yeah, you did. Yeah. The fake one. Um, it was a real
31:43
No, no, it wasn't real. It wasn't real. I'm I'm you know, hey, yeah, I'm going to tell you the truth. Okay. Uh,
31:48
that, you know, I'm I've been on this butterfly thing because I think that like God has written his plan for
31:55
humanity in uh in creation. And so, like, you see butterflies or caterpillars, you know, they go into
32:01
like their the metamorphosis, the the metamorphosis, right? But in that process, they have to fall apart.
32:07
They have to become completely liquid before the butterfly is born. And so if you don't fall apart, then uh new life
32:14
can't it can't happen. And so yeah, that's that's grow wings is what it's about.
32:19
Gosh, this guy John Keith, man, get this man around to applaud. He been on the mountain for 40 days and 40 nights. Talk
32:26
to man. I don't know what this guy Fasten something going on man. The new project is Grow Wings. You heard two
32:33
exceptional songs off the project. Make sure you run the whole project. is something you can sit with your your
32:39
family, your lover, your kids, your grandparents, and your homies, whoever it is you want
32:44
to uh rock out with. Have this playing in the background as you do what you do or as you drive in your trucks, your
32:50
cars, as you work out. There's some really high vibration music. John, I want to say thank you, man, for your
32:56
contributions, brother. Thank you for real. And and I'm coming to When am I where am I going? You going to Holy Smoke August 14th and
33:03
16th? Okay. Sorry. Through 16th. Through 16th. Um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to be dope.
33:08
That's going to be in Nashville. You want Heather to come, too? You should have asked her. Heather be Yo, you trying you trying to
33:13
come to Holy Smoke, our uh Christian hip hop festival in Nashville, Tennessee, August 14th to 16th.
33:19
So, I remember when you spoke about this before and I know what Sway's doing, but I can look you in the eye and say, "Yes,
33:26
I would love to come. I've never been here before, but I know but this is part of Sway dragging me into whatever work he may
33:33
have to do." I'm not working. that they invited me as a guest. No, you wanted to be on stage. You
33:39
wanted to I remember all of it. My job is to listen. That That's what you know.
33:46
My job is to listen. So, I didn't forget. Oh, okay. Well, you know, they asked me. The fellas was like, "Su, we love that."
33:52
No, you kind of begged your way on, did I? Yeah. Okay. Didn't feel like that at the time.
33:58
They didn't. They were scared to say no to Sway. You going to say no to him? I ain't going to say no. Y'all could bring me out. I could go on
34:04
talk and get them fired up, man. Just let me out on the I remember all of it. Yo, and John didn't want to say no. But
34:11
it was right in that studio over there, John. It was the other room, too. He was You just didn't want to hurt him, man.
34:17
Thank you, brother. I appreciate you tearing me apart. All right. Uh, give it up for John Keith. Throw Wings is the
34:23
project. Make sure you guys support that. Jen, love you. Jen Norwood aka Jay
34:29
Boogie. J Boogie. All right. Jen Boogie in the building. Uh Tracy, thank you. Uh we going to come
34:34
back with some more in the morning.
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